Monday, March 23, 2009

All is One

In the light of the Sun
there is no difference between day and night.
In the light of the Supreme Truth
there is no difference between Shiva and Shakti.

-Jnaneshwar (also known as Jnanadeva)

From "Teachings of the Hindu Mystics," © 2001 by Andrew Harvey.

73 comments:

V said...

The observer is the observed.
The thinker is the thought.
No conflict.

Sophia said...

Reason to be happy?

Why, yes, it is!

Shubhajit said...

In the light of supreme truth there is a freedom. Freedom is the goal of all nature.

Anonymous said...

there is always conflict, v. that is what gives life purpose and meaning. oneness is a myth. everything is different and separated and rightfully so. those differences, being infinitely real, is the true source of enlightement. there would be no such thing as love if all there is is one.how can there be a love for another or love at all if there is nothing but one? that would be narcissism and how sad that would be if the truth of existence is that there is only a whole without separate parts capable of being unique in their own right and interacting eternally with one another. that would be eternal lonliness, a tragedy in its own right. life would be meaningless for those that have reached enlightenment. the thinker isn't the thought, nor are you anybody else but yourself. be thankful for your life. the supreme truth is the knowledge and reallization of the eternity of the soul and its partaking in the infinite body of god for eternity.
Truly,
D.

V said...

The thinker is the thought has nothing to do with oneness of all things, which of course is obvious. The Universe is one thing or process.
It simply means that there is really no thinker as a separate entity. But the thoughts are the thinker. Without thought or thoughts there is no thinker. Inside the brain there are only thoughts, and not a thinker separate from the thoughts. Like inside the computer or the computer is nothing but a collection of programs, hardware, firmware, and software. Something like that.

V said...

The thoughts make up reality as each one of us know it. The content of the brain, the thoughts, is knowledge, experiences, cultures, traditions, beliefs, etc, etc, etc. It's one big mess called Society, with its cultures, traditions, religions, philosophies, sciences, techniques, knowledge and experiences. It's inside the brain in every one of us. Including Shiva and Shakti.
Most people don't realize this. That explains the conflict, the pride, the envy, the jealousy, the violence, the social problems, poverty, the wars, etc, etc, etc.

V said...

Once there is a realization that it's one big mess and there is not a thinker separate from all this inside the brain, then there is understanding that disolves the conflict.
It's just one big mess and nothing can be done about it. That's when everything falls into place.

V said...

The self and the self-centeredness is no longer there. But is this possible. I don't know. It means the collapse of the mental structure inside the brain. And if it happens to many of us it will be the collapse of Society as we know it.
That's how I see it.

Anonymous said...

your thinking is the same as the yogacaras. not bad, but it has problems. even though you say the thinker and the thought doesn't mean oneness, it does. the universe is an infinite variety of processes not a unification or a one thing. oneness only seems real if you havent thought the matter through. i say it because oneness is not true, but is a flaw in the way a person thinks. it is like an evil archon that tricks the mind into believing in a false reality. i say that because there is no such reality as oneness. the universe has always existed as an infinitely diverse whole that is NOT one, but has attributes that are just as real as the highest truth. look up Ramanuja. maybe it will help you understand.
Truly,
D.

Anonymous said...

so why is oneness wrong? because if there is no personality that belongs to you that is separate from all others, and separate from the highest truth (God), then the experience of life and death is but an entrance into nothingness and meaninglessness. but if you are real, and oneness is wrong, the personality that has put off the human condition and achieved its enlightenemnt will experience Brahman, with all the plenitude and eternity that experience can bring to the individual personality. This is the end of the enlightened, that they will experience the ecstasy of life in God eternally and towards eternal and ascending perfection individually. but letting the mind go beyond the lie of oneness and seeing its error is the only way to enlightenment. many people have thought they were enlightened but weren't and they have more work to do. but that is ok because the truth always makes itself known in the end.
Truly,
D.

Sophia said...

To say that all is not One, is like saying God is not infinite, for, if there exists something separate from God - "two", it follows that there is something outside God - hence God from this perspective is not infinite.

The Universe, yes, is definitely an infinite variety of processes, BUT, within a One.

Anonymous said...

"The Universe, yes, is definitely an infinite variety of processes, BUT, within a One."

...and so God is put within a box and told, 'you are this.' how tragic.

Truly,
D.

Anonymous said...

you express God in terms of spatial relationships and intellect and that is where you make your most profound mistake.

Truly,
D.

Sophia said...

Any attempt we make to describe God is putting God in a box.

I am not here to say whether someone's verbal description of God is right or wrong. We can only know God through our own experiences, not how someone else tells us to know God. Words can only take us so far.

As far as I know, God does not fit in our brain. :)

Sophia said...

P.S. I'm stepping away to watch a movie. Will be back to enjoy more dialog with you later, if you are here, that is.

Sophia said...

P.P.S.

While this is another attempt to describe God (in vain), I should made an addendum to what I said about being within a One. Perhaps it is better said - although not perfectly said - "within an Infinite One".

Anonymous said...

"We can only know God through our own experiences, not how someone else tells us to know God. Words can only take us so far."

that is true, but an incorrect understanding of God, a limitation of God, doesn't bring a soul closer to God. the soul cleanses itself first by a proper understanding of what God is and this happens only when we put aside our inner turmoil and selfishness and seek out God in a meaningful way. misunderstanding God, the universe, and other people creates a gap between ourselves and truth. but even worse is when we unknowningly tell God that he doesn't exist because we are all God already and we just don't know it. or when we say that we are all the same on the inside. there are keys to understanding and reconciliation, but the idea of oneness, as popularly understood, is a trick that locks the door. it is one of the highest manifestations of the trickster spirit that keeps human beings in a state of inward opression. an atom is different from every other atom. a molecule is different from every other molecule and rightfully so. this is what causes beauty and meaning to exist. these differences we owe our very existence to, not just here in the physical world, but in worlds well beyond our knowing. these differences exist eternally. when this is understood even the most munande tasks are imbibed with meaning and purpose.simplicity becomes profound on the deepest level and God, the source of all things, is neither limited within or without the physical worlds. but becomes both immanent and transcendent, but never one, which is a limiting factor no matter what context we put it in. when this wisdom is integrated into our individuality, we eventually partake fully in his presence and we do so as individuals that are eternally and infinitely distinct from God. it is the only way a being can experience higher states, and to be accurate, the only way we experience God. if everybody is one in their essential nature, we are self-deluding in every action of our lives because oneness implies there is nothing but a single self at the heart of all things. this is a delusion. here in the physical we must learn to overcome the delusions that are inherent in us. that is seeking out God in a meaningful way. people believe in their delusions sometimes because their lives have been full of pain and it is a coping mechanism. eventually they will see and learn.
Truly,
D.

Sophia said...

You call God "he". Is this not limiting God? Unless you are only using "he" for simplicity in conversation, that is.

Wait a sec.... in one instance, you state that God is both immanent and transcendent (and this I can't argue with!), but later you go to say that an individual is completely distinct from God. How can we be distinct from that which is immanent within us?

I'm not saying that everyone should give-up their individuality. I'm not talking about Borg-style "resistance is futile". :)

I get the idea that you don't care too much for graphs or diagrams, BUT, the best way I can describe what I'm talking about is with a diagram, since I'm not so eloquent with speech or rhetoric. Draw one big circle. (Yeah, I know it limits God, but, humor me for now.) Within this circle, draw lots of little circles. All those little circles are individuals, you, me and everyone else. We are all different yet still within the one big circle.

Anonymous said...

" How can we be distinct from that which is immanent within us?"

God is God beyond gender, I use "he" for the sake of simplicity. just because God is within you doesn't mean that it is you. i am not my pancreas. i am not my liver even though they are in me and without them I could not live. my liver is not God. the spirit of God gives life and existence with meaning to even the smallest increments of matter, but that doesn't mean that God is secretly everything. being immanent doesn't mean the identity of God is everything. the idea of identifying your most secret self as God puts a limitation to God and disallows one from experiencing God in the way he is meant to be experienced by the individual. if you see things pantheistically everything would be meaningless. the idea of the universe and people living "within" God is flawed too, it automatically denies God his infinity. but most people don't understand that because they don't properly understand that infinity is not conditioned by attributes but is free uttermost. it also will lead one to the idea that oneness is the ultimate reality of existence. and that is just not true. i will not even mention the moral dangers of pantheistic meaninglessness/oneness but can only say that if all is one, there is no such thing as evil or poor conduct. this means that no matter how sick or evil a person is, its just God being evil and "playing" in cause and effect in a secret way. there is a moral problem to the idea of oneness and it is one that should ring true for all those that have experienced some sort of violence or injustice in their life.
Truly,
D.

Sophia said...

At some point in our evolution we developed these minds that have the ability to discern good from bad. Without these minds of ours, there would be no good and bad. Things would just be. It's a human thing to call something good or evil. Something good in one country might be evil in another country. Now, also as part of our evolution, we have developed morals. There were no morals before we evolved into humans. But since morals have come into existence along with the evolution of mankind, there must be some purpose to them as regards the lifting of man to his/her divine nature.

To clarify what you said in the beginning of your last comment, just because I think God is within me does not mean I think God is me. I am part of God, yes, just as you are.

Interestingly enough, last night I was contemplating using body parts - as you have done - to further explain my ideas about God and human individuality. For instance, a toe and finger are not the same things. They are two different things yet they are both part of a larger whole, the human body.

If I had to label myself as something, which I don't necessarily like doing, I would call myself a panentheist as opposed to a pantheist. Both are similar, yet, instead of claiming that God is the universe as pantheists do, panentheists claim that God is the universe and more.

Evil people are so because of their ignorance of who they are.

Anonymous said...

"Evil people are so because of their ignorance of who they are"

evil people are ignorant because they have delusions and opressions that keep them further away from God. i've known evil people that have known themselves very well. i've known evil people that are more spiritually apt and experienced than most people. it has nothing to do with ignorance of who they are. it has everything to do with darkness that fills the gap between what they are and what God is. when this darkness fills in, it doesn't allow the good things to come to you. so to say that they are ignorant of who they are is inaccurate and falls in line with the oneness teaching. people may believe what they like to believe, but ignorance is ignorance even if ignorance sounds good and makes us feel good. i'm not saying you are ignorant, but you disguise your unknowning in unanswerable paradoxes like below.

"The Universe, yes, is definitely an infinite variety of processes, BUT, within a One"

i see the unknowning in the way you write. don't feel bad about that, your mind is attempting to understand. so is mine and everyone elses. i used to believe in the oneness, too. oneness is a step toward real wisdom, but it can also be a trap for those that have fallen down and have been broken.

"If I had to label myself as something, which I don't necessarily like doing, I would call myself a panentheist as opposed to a pantheist."

i understand the terms, but they are both labels that are erroneous and insufficient at expressing what is real. that isn't a paradox. you are searching with your intellect and in the process you will neglect the heart. that makes your understanding imperfect.
Truly,
D.

human being said...

"...insufficient at expressing what is real."

what is real?

Anonymous said...

what isn't real is the question? i think i've already explained what i've meant by real in the previous posts.
Truly,
D.

Sophia said...

Anonymous,

What would you say is the first step toward enlightenment, then?

And, what is enlightenment?

What is "real"? And please, a better response to that than you gave Human Being! :)

Anonymous said...

i thought i gave human being a good answer. i wasn't being disrespectful to that person. i explained that there is nothing that is not real. everything that occurs is real and is meant to be real from the most meaningless occurances to the most meaningful. there are no illusions anywhere. pain is real. hate is real. love is real, ecstasy is real. i can't tell you what enlightenment is because you are already convinced that i am wrong. i will only say that enlightenment is the direct experience of God from the individual point of view of the soul. the ecstatic rapture of that experience goes beyond oneness teaching of the intellect and illuminates it as a myth. it is not possible to be enlightened through the intellect, but through the heart. and if you do not know what the heart is, or if you don't know your own heart, you could never reach enlightenment. the highest point the intellect can reach is the false idea of oneness as all, but there is so much more to the soul than the intellect.
Truly,
D.

human being said...

"everything that occurs is real and is meant to be real from the most meaningless occurances to the most meaningful."

occur

1. To take place; come about.
2. To be found to exist or appear
3. To come to mind

it occurs to me that all that occurs in the cosmos is occuring in me too.... i feel cosmos occurs in me... and surely i occur in the cosmos...

i happen to have a heart that happens to be in a constant dialog with my intellect... first they didn't know each other... they happened to know each other one day... fights and wars occured...
but at last they happened to fall in love with each other...

oh sorry friends... what crows say is always 'meaningfulless'... they just babble!

and it's not a rare occurence...

namaste!

Anonymous said...

"it occurs to me that all that occurs in the cosmos is occuring in me too.... i feel cosmos occurs in me... and surely i occur in the cosmos..."

...sure, oneness, lol. be free to believe what you will. that freedom comes from God and cannot be taken from you. i cannot convince you if that is what you believe. but at least i thank you for hearing me out. have a beautiful day.
Truly,
D.

human being said...

thanks dear friend...

and think we are here... in this world not to convince but to seek and share... to have dialog...

change occurs deliberately and softly... be sure it does... in all of us...


and this dialog here has been so beautiful from the very first comment...

peace

Sophia said...

Hi anonymous,

I know you weren't being disrespectful. What I meant by "give a better response" was that I wished to see a longer more thought-out response with greater detail.

I am not convinced you are wrong. However, are you convinced you are 100% right? If you are, you are claiming that you know all the answers. I know you don't want to do that. :) NO one knows all the answers about what God is.

I am not disagreeing with you on many of your points - yes, we can know God through our souls - a lot of those who are ignorant of who they are are so because they haven't realized their souls yet.

Do you have a teaching on how people can realize their souls?

I will say that you could be more convincing just by adjusting your attitude a little bit. ;) Don't be angry about that!

Sophia said...

Hello my crow friend,

As above, so below!

A marriage of sorts. :)

Anonymous said...

"...are you convinced you are 100% right? If you are, you are claiming that you know all the answers. I know you don't want to do that. :) NO one knows all the answers about what God is."

i am claiming that i am right about the error of oneness. but that doesn't mean i know all the answers about the mystery of God. far from it. it does mean that i do know more than some people. and it does mean that i have gone beyond oneness logically, morally, and empirically. when this happened, i found a new dimension in myself that went beyond the weaker concepts of soul, intellect, or mind that i once believed in. what i am saying is that a human being can partake and experience the plentitude of God and this is superior to the intellectual pursuit of spiritual ideas that are prevalent today. this experience gives a person a new life with new dimension. enlightenment is a weak term but it is one i would use here to express what goes beyond the oneness you have written about.

"I will say that you could be more convincing just by adjusting your attitude a little bit. ;) Don't be angry about that!"

i'm not angry about it. lol. i didn't think my attitude was offensive. maybe you are a bit on the sensitive side and see my words as something they aren't. tone is difficult to decipher online. i'm just speaking a position, that's all. sorry if i have come off in a manner that isn't agreeable with you. a persons attitude shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not his or her message is convincing or true. a teaching speaks for itself. bodhidharma was a mean mother f'er remember. lots of people love the guy.

"Do you have a teaching on how people can realize their souls?"

no. i'm not concerned with finding the soul. from a truer point of view, the search for ones soul or its realiation is a selfish endeavor. we are not here to look for the soul. you are living in your soul. your thoughts are taking place in the soul. you are your soul. the ancient greeks knew this and called it "psyche" which is today known as the "soul" in english. so the soul is the mind and the wholeness of a person. when did we forget what our soul was? how can you not find it or know where it is? we are here to find God and we must use the energies of God to create a metamorphosis within that leads a human being to a more profound wisdom and experience of God. living life and exploration is sufficient for everybody, but only when you learn how to unmask the things that hide behind the mask of oneness. only people that are holding onto something remain in the oneness teaching. what i have learned is an eternally dynamic and ascending experience of God. without that, the journey simply ends because God gives life to all things and we are not using life wisely when we are denying life or believing that truth is relative to the individual.
Truly,
D.

V said...

Thinking doesn't tell us anything about God. Because God is not an idea, not a belief. The word God is not God. And if there is a God he's not interested in knowing who he is. And if he is love, then he's not interested in knowing what love is or what love is not. He just acts.

Anonymous said...

"Thinking doesn't tell us anything about God"

sure it does, my friend. thinking tells us everything we could know in this life about God, it is our soul and is made for the purpose of communion with higher states of being. it cannot tell us everything about God and the universe, but by thinking we know that God is not a hamburger or something crazy like that. by thinking we know that we are here and not somewhere else. all the hardships that we go through reveal to us that this life is fully imbibed with meaning and purpose that comes from God. that is why thinking and thought is how we grasp even the things that go beyond the normal scope of human activity.
Truly,
D.

V said...

Thinking is very limited. It fragments reality. It cannot describe the infinite. And thinking is mostly based on beliefs, which is the past, knowledge, ideas and experiences.
God is beyond thoughts and words. When you say God is one and everything, it doesn't mean much. You can say that about everything.
You can only guess what or who God is.
That explains the many beliefs, religions, traditions, and philosophies around God. And the great confusion.

Anonymous said...

"You can only guess what or who God is."

i don't think that is true. there is direct experience of God that is possible, which goes beyond guessing about God and being brought into the presence and glory of God. in that state there is no guessing involved nor is their confusion as to the reality of it. it becomes obvious immediately that there is more dimension to God and Self then oneness can offer.

"When you say God is one and everything, it doesn't mean much. You can say that about everything."

you're right that saying God is one and everything doesn't mean much. it doesn't mean much because there is no truth to it. but if i were to say that your loved one is dying, it would mean something to you. it means something because you know that your loved one is real and important to you. so while i agree with the first part of your words, i disagree with the second part. there is strong meaning to some things that are said and written.

the view of God that is taken here by you and sophia as being one and all, takes meaning away from God and life at the deepest levels. you can attempt to rationalize your oneness thoughts logically, but then you will find yourself in a difficult place morally because the oneness doctrine, in the end, is nihilism and there is no way out of that. if you live by the doctrine of the essential emptiness/oneness of everything, you steal meaning away and cut yourself off from God as he truly is.
Truly,
D.

V said...

I've talked to God a lot, prayed a lot and asked for forgiveness for every sin I had committed. But he never for once answered back.
There are too many Gods, and gods out there.
Frankly I don't know who God is. And I think he's not interested at all.
I've read too many books too.

V said...

I think Doubt is the door to enlightenment and happiness. There's just too many conflicting Dogmas in the world.

Anonymous said...

believe me, my friend, i do understand. your belief in doubt as the door to enlightenment is very true.
Truly,
D.

Sophia said...

Hi Anonymous,

Today I thought that perhaps I should further elaborate on what I meant by Oneness. Basically what I mean by that is that there is an interconnectedness between everyone and everything. The Spirit running through everything is what we share in common.

>>>"what i am saying is that a human being can partake and experience the plentitude of God and this is superior to the intellectual pursuit of spiritual ideas that are prevalent today."<<<

Do you have some methods that would show how we can experience God?

I don't think I'd call myself enlightened, but it does seem as if I went through some process that changed my perspective. In a way it has sometimes seemed as though I was interacting with the Divine by "signs" such as synchronicity.

I would never deny Life - I think living in Life has been a (mostly) amazing experience, a miracle in itself.

Sophia said...

Hi V,

>>>"You can only guess what or who God is.
That explains the many beliefs, religions, traditions, and philosophies around God."<<<

Your statement reminds me of what Don once said, that "there are as many religions as there are people in the world."

Sophia said...

V,

You said,

>>>"I've talked to God a lot, prayed a lot and asked for forgiveness for every sin I had committed. But he never for once answered back."<<<

How did you try to "listen" for a response? Look around you and listen, be aware of your surroundings, because God speaks in God's own language. Maybe it will be a synchronicity right when you need it. Or a symbol that you see.

human being said...

our sins are our doubts... so they can be those doors you talk about, V...

i cannot say i believe in God or not... surely not in the common sense of the word...

for me it's that oneness... so he manifests in everything... and the signs as Sophia says are everywhere...

recently i was in a state of shock over something i really didn't expect.... he was there to sooth me... to hear me venting... he was there even before the shock to make me prepared... and he had such a soft and calming presence...

and yes... this time too he came to me in a new form...
his form this time was:

V

;)

Anonymous said...

"Do you have some methods that would show how we can experience God?"

yes but it is not as simple as saying here do this and it will happen for you. before something like that would work a person would have to come to the logical realization that there is a unique difference between man and god. man and man. man and matter. god and matter. and matter and matter. and that these differences can never be reconciled because they give all meaning to our individal life and the universe, which is what God intended. until that is realized, there is no excercise that could further someone along their path passed the belief of oneness. i say that based on my own experience. it wasn't until i went beyond that teaching that i began to have progress that turned into direct experiences. oneness has to be transcended. i agree with you that there is an interconnectedness by way of spirit, and that is how we communicate and experience empathy and compassion for others.

i think the word God is a limitation. people that have been reading this dialogue seem to have an idea that God is meant as an entity outside the universe like a man or something like that. that is not what i have meant to imply. God is the absolute, all powerful, and glorified independent source of everything. God is infinite potential and potency with an infinite number of attribues that exist in states of being and non-being alike. he is the eternal fount of all things, while being none of them in name or form, but having a fully separate supreme identity that is totally distinct from the attributes that proceed from him. all life is dependent upon God. from God comes name and form and the breath of life. but also flowing forth are the primal energies of creation. and once a person experiences those energies, and the meaning they bestow, they are changed from a human being who is stifled by the intellect to a being that has reached beyond the intellect into higher states of being that surpass the mundane. in a sense, those experiences are a blessing from God's grace. it comes down to a matter of pride for some people. they have been wounded in life and seem to be at war with God and therefore create their own Gods, which is what they want God to be. for me i make no such claim to know God totally. i freely admit that i do not know God in his fullness because i am only a man. but there are parts i do know very well. i also admit that i know, not as a matter of belief, but as a matter of fact that the oneness that has been discussed here is not the truth. so the supposed signs of God's oneness being everywhere is something that nobody here could be able to logically justify to me or anyone else that has had the beatific vision or who is a veteran of the various schools of logic that have already disproved the oneness teaching long ago.
Truly,
D.

V said...

What is the most important thing in life?
Is there anything sacred?

Anonymous said...

everything is sacred in the proper model of things. the most important thing is the movement of a human being toward God, and the most un-sacred and meaningless things would be those things that keep a human being stifled on their path toward God. meaning becomes more profound and meaningful the closer one gets to God.
Truly,
D.

human being said...

"everything is sacred


in the proper model of things. the most important thing is the


movement of a human being


toward God, and the most un-sacred and meaningless things would be those things that keep a human being stifled on their path toward God. meaning becomes more profound and meaningful


the closer one gets to God."





beauuuuuuuuuuuuutiful!
namaste!

V said...

I think relationship is the most important thing in life. Relationship with others and with nature, our planet, our universe. Life is relationship. There must be love that is not dominating, controlling, possessive, vain, envious, jealous, callous, selfish and self-centered.
Physical life and nature is the most sacred thing in life. Not God, which is just a word or based on beliefs and philosophies, or thinking which is limited and fragmented. And true love must be discovered by realizing for oneself what love is not and negating it.
To think in more concrete terms.

Eyeshare said...

Hi intellectuals,

The perspectives of the debate, I have really enjoyed.

Regards.

Anonymous said...

"Physical life and nature is the most sacred thing in life. Not God, which is just a word or based on beliefs and philosophies, or thinking which is limited and fragmented."

V, do your words come as a matter of personal opinion, thinking, and belief in the same way you claim God is a matter of thinking and belief? God is not based on belief and philosophies. at least not God as he truly is. as i stated earlier, God is not something that can be grasped by an intellectual understanding alone. physical life and nature are limited, they are temporary and fleeting and bring great amounts of suffering to some people. i can assure you that neither physical life nor nature are the most important thing. we live in a world where there is disease, war, and sufferng. even these negative things can be used to bring a person closer to God. that is where nature has its place. there is a necessity behind nature, but it isn't the most important thing, nature is subject to the eternal factor that determines it, which is God. you should understand that a human thought cannot be measured, but nature can be measured in various ways. the mind doesn't follow the rules of nature, nor is it limited by nature. thoughts transcend nature. since that is true, even thoughts, as fragmented as you claim them to be, are superior to the nature you claim as more sacred than God.
Truly,
D.

V said...

Of course, it's all a matter of opinions. I think nature is God, and we've been abusing God. Thoughts or thinking is responsible for this ...

Anonymous said...

if i may say so, and with all due respect,V,your philosophy of life is very limited and tragic. i hope someday you learn to go beyond it.
Truly,
D.

Eyeshare said...

Hi Anonymous,

"you should understand that a human thought cannot be measured, but nature can be measured in various ways."

Well quoted.

Well, I coincide and appreciate most of your thoughts.

Regards,

Eyeshare said...

Hi Sofia,

I always appreciate that you have provided such a nice fourm to all of us to share view. I always appreciate your presence here.

Love,

eye

V said...

It all remains to be seen. Life as it is is limited and tragic enough.

V said...

The practical question is: how can the greedy feed the needy?

human being said...

D...

no... V's just searching and thriving... she's a deep thinker...
i love the way she questions everything and finds answers to them... answers that are not fixed, they evolve with her experiences and knowledge... have you been to her blogs?
she has such a beautiful soul...


V...

i'm still pondering on what you say about thoughts...

and about your last question here,
Iranians have a saying:

take from the needy and give to the greedy as the latter is more needy...

love

V said...

human being,
Thinking is not sacred, holy, or spiritual in nature. It is psychocybernetic or mental programming. GIGO!
What intellectuals write is just what they have read. Recycled wisdom! Nothing more nothing less.

V said...

Everyone simply has mental images of other people inside his brains. The more people one interacts or relates with the more mental images there are inside his brain. Incomplete self-images or little egos inside the brain interacting from time to time. Online or offline. That's how relationships work.
The more information one gets of another the better or more accurate the mental image is. In other words too little to make a complete picture. But relationships work. And they can turn sour and ugly sometimes. The more information the more likely this will happen.

V said...

This usually happens when people think too much with very little information.

human being said...

no it might not be sacred but it's the only thing we have to understand everything.... even love...

but love is sacred... i really believe in this...


as for recycled wisdom, it's true for most of the intellectual writings...

but one question:
if A's wisdom is B's recycled wisdom and B's is C's and.......... then where does Z's wisdom come from?

and you think nothing changes in the process of recycling? even for the worse?

V said...

I am not a she; I am a he.

V said...

It depends. ;)
From A, if you make a circle out of the Alphabeth.
Of course, wisdom is not everything.

V said...

Love is sacred, but is it beyond words? Thoughts?

V said...

If there are no thoughts inside the brain will there be love?

human being said...

what do i know about you?
victor?
victoria?
V?
she?
he?
does it really make any difference?
i'm just communicating with some thoughts...

and i just know i love you... though i might not understand what you think... or i might not think the way you think...
but i love you because you are thinking... about everything...and sharing them with others... and this is love...

and i don't know which one wins the priority... love or thoughts... does it really matter?

don't think so... they are the two things that make me human... and a happy one...

love to you...

human being said...

in Persian we just have one word for 3rd person singular:

/oo/ (او)

:)

V said...

There are just thoughts inside the brain in all of us. Images, experiences, knowledge, ideas, information, photos, pictures, facts, etc, etc, etc. Thoughts create centers in the brain. And they interact with each other, with all the relevant information around them. IOW, lots of egos in there. That's how we get stressed and have headaches.

V said...

If you isolate a person in a cell or room, these interactions can go on. Also in dreams. That's how people get suspicious, and paranoid.

V said...

Perfect love doesn't exist. Because thoughts interfere. That's all I know.

V said...

If you put all the thoughts in the world in one box, called Internet. They'll probably still fit in one brain. Not sure.

V said...

Love is probably the space where the thoughts interact. When the thoughts become active, the love is passive. When the thoughts becomes silent, that's when love becomes active. Something like that.

human being said...

sometimes i just love to watch the river... just watching... and no thoughts come to my mind about the river... or the things in it... or the things on it... or the things by it... as it is always so for me...

on these occasions... i feel nothing just a flow... and when thoughts are back to me again... i feel i've been through a great joy... or perhaps it has been through me..

i have not been to a river for a long time... but strangely i discovered i was filled with the same feeling... as i was watching the flow of your thoughts here and on your blogs... pouring out in my mail one by one...

is this joy part of that pleasure?
is it sinful?

isn't it one of the steps toward love?

oh i cannot see anything in isolation... everything is overlapping... everything is connected in a way to something esle...

all's one...

flowing...





go on and flow river... never mind a crow's babblings standing by you...

Anonymous said...

"I am not a she; I am a he."

sorry but i thought that was funny, so i figured i would quote it again.

Eyeshare, thank you for your kind comments.

i think i have said all i can in this thread in regard to the oneness teaching. all i can say is that a teaching speaks for itself and the oneness/emptiness teaching is deficient for reasons i have shown logically and metaphysically. that's my perspective, i don't ask you to believe what i say, but if you understand the importance of meaning, ethics, and purpose in human life, you will understand why the teaching is so flawed at every level and especially flawed at the most fundamental levels. needless to say it has been interesting going back and forth with you all. i look forward to doing it again sometime.
Truly,
D.